- QFTCIMI515 Current Events 1-2 answers - 10 Updates
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- Calvin's Quiz #377 - 1 Update
| Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se>: Jan 24 02:06PM +0100 > ("by", "navy"), and occasionally has the first one ("lynch"), > but it has an additional common pronunciation as a consonant > (technically a semivowel) as in "you", which is not possible for I. That is mainly a convention. There are no words spelled "iou", "iellow", "laier" or "pai". But there is "iod" and "paid". The change between y and i in the later case is as far as I recall a remnant of conventions employed by the handwriting of monks. -- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se |
| msb@vex.net (Mark Brader): Jan 24 09:57AM -0600 Mark Brader: > > but [Y] has an additional common pronunciation as a consonant > > (technically a semivowel) as in "you", which is not possible for I. Erland Sommarskog: > That is mainly a convention. Yes, we're talking about conventional spelling. > There are no words spelled "iou", "iellow", "laier" or "pai". > But there is "iod" If there is, I never heard of it (but I have hard of "yod" or "yodh", a letter in the Hebrew alphabet). And I was only talking about spellings in common or moderately common use. > and "paid". I was only listing cases where the letter represents a sound of its own. "Paid" has a single vowel sound, long A, represented by "ai" (and which could also be represented by "ay", as in "pay", or A alone, as in "mate"). -- Mark Brader | Does anybody seriously believe that if a bunch of horses Toronto | saw a giant egg broken into pieces, their response would msb@vex.net | be: "Hey! Let's try to reassemble this!"? --Dave Barry My text in this article is in the public domain. |
| Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se>: Jan 24 05:43PM +0100 >> There are no words spelled "iou", "iellow", "laier" or "pai". >> But there is "iod" > If there is, I never heard of it http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/iod > (but I have hard of "yod" or "yodh",a letter in the Hebrew alphabet). And speaking of names of letters there is "iota". > I was only listing cases where the letter represents a sound of its own. > "Paid" has a single vowel sound, long A, represented by "ai" (and which > could also be represented by "ay", as in "pay", or A alone, as in "mate"). [pA:]? So, I have never been to Toronto, so I don't know how you speak there, but in the varity of English I have learnt there is no long vowel in "pay" or "paid". There is a diphtong, and it is the same diphtong as in "mate". Presumably, "mate" originally had a long vowel, but "pay" never had one in the English language that I know. > Yes, we're talking about conventional spelling. Obviously, else I would have not remarked on the misspelling of signore Berlusconi's first name. What I wanted to say is that in Italian and English (and French) "i" and "y" are interchangable in the sense that if you replace one with the other, there is no systematic change in pronounciation, and this could explain the misspelling. -- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se |
| msb@vex.net (Mark Brader): Jan 24 11:43AM -0600 Erland Sommarskog: >>> There are no words spelled "iou", "iellow", "laier" or "pai". >>> But there is "iod" Mark Brader: >> If there is, I never heard of it Erland Sommarskog: > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/iod That's a prefix, not a word, and is two syllables, with a long I. >> (but I have hard of "yod" or "yodh",a letter in the Hebrew alphabet). > And speaking of names of letters there is "iota". Three syllables, with a long I. > ...in the varity of English I have learnt there is no long vowel > in "pay" or "paid". There is a diphtong, and it is the same diphtong > as in "mate". Correct -- but in English that diphthong is considered a single vowel sound and its name is "long A". (Not all English-speakers learn this name.) > What I wanted to say is that in Italian and English (and French) "i" > and "y" are interchangable in the sense that if you replace one with > the other, there is no systematic change in pronounciation... And what I wanted to say is that it's not that simple, although admittedly it works in many cases. -- Mark Brader | "If you have to go in, you go in. Toronto | The choice was made the day you took your oath." msb@vex.net | --Dan Duddy, New York Fire Department My text in this article is in the public domain. |
| Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se>: Jan 24 08:47PM +0100 >> And speaking of names of letters there is "iota". > Three syllables, with a long I. I was not aware of this. Please keep in mind that I am not a native speaker of English. It is not uncommon among foreign speakers to assume that a certain pattern applies in some situation in the highly irregular English language. The pronounciation of "iota" and "iod" are surprising, given their origins. Then again, in the case of "iota", I don't know the original Greek pronouciation. > Correct -- but in English that diphthong is considered a single vowel > sound and its name is "long A". (Not all English-speakers learn this > name.) Of course not, since it is name which is plain nonsense to speakers of a language that has a long A. Or to someone with a knowledge of phonetics. Now, words like "father", "far" and "fast" - there you have words with a long A. (In the latter case, not among all English speakers, though.) > And what I wanted to say is that it's not that simple, although admittedly > it works in many cases. Yes, as we have noted there are a few exceptions. But nor does your idea of that "y" has a pronounciation which is not possible for "i". Dan(iel) pointed one counter-example. Other examples are words like "saviour" and "behaviour". -- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se |
| msb@vex.net (Mark Brader): Jan 24 04:24PM -0600 Erland Sommarskog: >>> And speaking of names of letters there is "iota". Mark Brader: >> Three syllables, with a long I. Erland Sommarskog: > Please keep in mind that I am not a native speaker of English. Which makes some of the statements you make sound a bit presumptuous. (Please don't take this as nasty.) >> Correct -- but in English that diphthong (By the way, that's "phth" because the Greek word for "tongue" starts with phi-theta. Not my idea!) >> (Not all English-speakers learn this name.) > Of course not, since it is name which is plain nonsense to speakers of > a language that has a long A.... No, practices relating to foreign languages are completely irrelevant. I think the reason it's not always taught is that only five or six vowel pairs are covered by the English "long" and "short" designations, and additionally, many American dialects don't have one of those sounds (short O). So the system is a poor match for the range of vowels sounds in English. But it does allow for the simple rule that, in many short words not of recent foreign origin, a silent final E indicates that the other vowel is long when it would otherwise be short -- bat/bate, met/mete, sit/site, hop/hope, jut/jute. > idea of that "y" has a pronounciation which is not possible for "i". > Dan(iel) pointed one counter-example. Other examples are words like > "saviour" and "behaviour". Well, for me the I each of those "really" has a long E sound, giving one more syllable in each case, though it may be reduced to a Y sound in rapid speech and I concede that some people may reduce it in all cases. -- Mark Brader | "...it's a characteristic ... of organizations that try Toronto | to anticipate every possible failure: they easily msb@vex.net | come to believe that they *have*..." --Henry Spencer My text in this article is in the public domain. |
| tool@panix.com (Dan Blum): Jan 24 10:53PM > one more syllable in each case, though it may be reduced to a Y sound > in rapid speech and I concede that some people may reduce it in all > cases. I think you'll find that the standard pronunciations are as Erland describes. I can't find a single dictionary that lists them with the extra syllable, and in fact they all show the "y" consonantal sound, although this is indicated in a few ways. -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dan Blum tool@panix.com "I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up." |
| Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se>: Jan 24 11:55PM +0100 >> Of course not, since it is name which is plain nonsense to speakers of >> a language that has a long A.... > No, practices relating to foreign languages are completely irrelevant. Hardly. Don't teach people things that would only confuse them. And which disagrees with the general terminology in phonetics. > recent foreign origin, a silent final E indicates that the other vowel > is long when it would otherwise be short -- bat/bate, met/mete, sit/site, > hop/hope, jut/jute. Of these words only "mete" and "jute" has long vowels, which you can convince yourself of by looking up the words in a dictionary that gives you the phonetic transscription according to the IPA. Yes, once upon a time the vowels were long, and there may still be archaic dialects on the British Isles where you can encounter this. But in standard varities of modern English, there are no long vowels in "bate" or "site" or "hope". -- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se |
| msb@vex.net (Mark Brader): Jan 24 04:59PM -0600 Erland Sommarskog: > Of these words only "mete" and "jute" has long vowels, which you can > convince yourself of by looking up the words in a dictionary that gives > you the phonetic transscription according to the IPA. Entirely irrrelevant. -- Mark Brader | "It can be amusing, even if painful, to watch the Toronto | ethnocentrism of those who are convinced their msb@vex.net | local standards are universal." -- Tom Chapin |
| Erland Sommarskog <esquel@sommarskog.se>: Jan 25 11:52AM +0100 >> convince yourself of by looking up the words in a dictionary that gives >> you the phonetic transscription according to the IPA. > Entirely irrrelevant. Of course, it may be entirely irrelevant to you. However, I would still advice you to keep this in mind when you talk with people with a background in different languages, or who have a knowledge of linguistics, as your usage conflicts with the regular technical usage. -- Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esquel@sommarskog.se |
| Dan Tilque <dtilque@frontier.com>: Jan 24 08:03PM -0800 Mark Brader wrote: > here's a 60th anniversary round on the birth of rock'n'roll. > 1. Who scandalized the world by marrying Myra Gale Brown on > 1957-12-12? Jerry Lee Lewis > 2. Which host had Elvis sing "Hound Dog" *to* a hound dog on his > network variety show? Ed Sullivan > 3. Three big rock'n'rollers died tragically on 1959-02-02 in a > plane crash at Clear Lake, Iowa. Two of them eventually inspired > a popular movies about their lives, but which one did not? The Big Bopper > 4. Which music legend said in 1957 that "rock'n'roll is phony > and false, and sung, written, and played for the most part by > cretinous goons"? (Yeah, but what's your point?) Frank Sinatra > 5. In 1956, which voluminous sitcom star said of Elvis, "He can't > last, I tell you flatly, he can't last"? Jackie Gleason > of "Summertime Blues" fame died in a car crash in Bath, England. > Name him. > 9. From which US city did "American Bandstand" originate? Las Vegas > 2. "I once wanted to become an atheist but I gave up. They have > no holidays." (Comedian and violinist, known for his > one-liners.) Henny Youngman > God designated one to be crazy and amuse the breast beaters. > By the time I was 5, I knew I was that one." (Comic, prolific > writer, director of zany cinema comedies, producer.) Mel Brooks > Jewish. If you live in Butte, Montana, you are going to be > goyim even if you are Jewish." (Stand-up comedian, social > critic, and satirist.) Lenny Bruce > us 40 years into the desert in order to bring us to the one place > in the Middle East that has no oil!" (Fourth Prime Minister > of Israel.) Golda Meir > 6. "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." > (British political leader.) Benjamin Disraeli > 7. "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want > to achieve immortality through not dying." (Neurotic comedian, > writer, prolific filmmaker.) Woody Allen > 8. "Marriage is a wonderful institution. But who wants to live > in an institution?" (Comedian, film and television star, > known for his quick and acerbic wit.) Groucho Marx > 9. "Television is a medium because it is neither rare nor well > done." (Innovative and absurdist early TV comedian.) Oscar Levant -- Dan Tilque |
| "Peter Smyth" <psmyth@ukf.net>: Jan 24 01:29PM Calvin wrote: > 1 Which is the most populous country in Africa? Nigeria > 2 Which actress has regularly appeared in both Jonathon Creek and > Men Behaving Badly? Caroline Quentin > 3 Who was the only non-British member of Monty Python? Terry Gilliam > 4 The TV series The Sopranos was mostly set in which US > state? New Jersey > 5 Which African capital city was known as Salisbury during > the colonial era? Harare > 6 The Eurostar terminates at which Paris railway > station? Gare du Nord > 7 Which major European power declared war on Germany in > 1943? Italy > 8 The pineapple is indigenous to which continent? North America > 9 What do the initials of the film company MGM stand for? Metro Goldwyn Mayer > 10 Norwegian band A-ha sang the theme song for which 1987 James Bond > film? The Living Daylights Peter Smyth |
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